Reading 11 : The price you pay for associations -

Reading 11: June 08

Chapters 24.5-25.3
Translations Due Sunday, June 15 (midnight CST)
Grammar Questions Due Tuesday, June 17 (midnight CST)

Chapter 25

Chapter 25 is the fifth longest chapter in the Enchiridion (206 words). There five sections, each using a rhetorical question or statement and then answering it. Dr. Seddon sees the chapter as 'alluding to the client-patron relationship that underpinned the social life of the times' (Seddon p. 100). Sections 25.1, 25.4 and 25.5 all use the 'banquet' example. Here are the first sentences from each of the sections:

25.1 Has someone been honoured above you at a banquet...?
25.2 How is it possible...to have an equal share with people who do these things?
25.3 For what price are lettuces sold?
25.4 You have not been invited because . . . you did not pay the price.
25.5 Do you have nothing then, in place of the banquet?

As with all client relationships, the client pays a price and hopes to get something back in return. The mentor or patron is the person who gives something valuable (that only the client may value); This puts the patron in a position of control and puts the client in the position of 'lack of control' (sound familiar? οὐκ ἐφ' ἡμῖν). The number of clients a patron had represented the prestige of the patron. The patron would invite his clients into his atrium for the morning salutatio and occasionally invite his clients to banquets at the patron's house.

Epictetus was teaching young men who were involved in the client-patron relationship. They entered the relationship seeking social advancement. The client would judge his status by where he was seated at the banquet. This is the context of Enchiridion chapter 25. Where does the prokopton 'progressing Stoic' student fit into such a scenario. Should he persue client relationships? Should he be upset about loss of status? What is truly good and truly bad?

Aids to Reading the Greek

Special Words

The meanings of the LSJ lexicon do not always point out or fit the 'Stoic' use of terms. The following list of words which are the behavioral, ethical and philosophical terms that occur in the reading. Some of them are 'Stoic specific'; most are not. As the special vocabulary page is being built, a more complete 'special lexicon' will become available to help understand the Greek word. The Stoic Groups also has a posting of terms (the Greek is transliterated). Here are some of the brief glosses. The freqencies are for the entire Enchiridion.

Corrections to the Text

The Perseus text remains unchanged. Boter's 1999 critical edition has several variants and disagrees about the punctuation in about 12 different places!

Reading 11: Chapters 24.5-25.3

   [25.2a] πῶς γὰρ ἴσον ἔχειν δύναται ὁ μὴ φοιτῶν ἐπὶ θύρας τινὸς τῷ φοιτῶντι; [25.2b] ὁ μὴ παραπέμπων τῷ παραπέμποντι; [25.2c] ὁ μὴ ἐπαινῶν τῷ ἐπαινοῦντι, ἄδικος οὖν ἔσῃ καὶ ἄπληστος, [25.2d] εἰ μὴ προϊέμενος ταῦτα, ἀνθ᾽ ὧν ἐκεῖνα πιπράσκεται, προῖκα αὐτὰ βουλήσῃ λαμβάνειν. [25.3a] ἀλλὰ πόσου πιπράσκονται θρίδακες; ὀβολοῦ, ἂν οὕτω τύχῃ. [25.3b] ἂν οὖν τις προέμενος τὸν ὀβολὸν λάβῃ θρίδακας, σὺ δὲ μὴ προέμενος μὴ λάβῃς, μὴ οἴου ἔλαττον ἔχειν τοῦ λαβόντος. [25.3c] ὡς γὰρ ἐκεῖνος ἔχει θρίδακας, οὕτω σὺ τὸν ὀβολόν, ὃν οὐκ ἔδωκας.

Basic Questions

Note: If you desire to get THE answer to the question and the answers to the questions suggested by the Greekstudy members, you may either view the appropriate Greekstudy email which includes the answers, or alternately (if you missed the email) send in your answers to the question(s). I'll be glad to email you the suggested answer and the answers sent in by the Greekstudy members.

Q1. Line 1

Q2. Line

Q3. Line

Q4. Line

Q5. Line

Q6. Line

Q7. Line

This adaptation of Chapter 24 is a continuance of the Reading 10 Advanced reading. This is one of the places in the Paraphrasis Christiana where the author/adapter significantly departs from the text of the Enchiridion and brings in God,

λέληθε δὲ τοὺς πολλοὺς ὅτι καὶ πολίτης εἰμί." ποίαν ταύτην πάλιν τιμὴν λέγουσιν; οὐ χειροτονήσουσί <σε> πρεσβύτην, οὐδὲ ἄρχοντα αἱρήσναται. καὶ τί τοῦτο; οὐδὲ γὰρ εἰς τοῦτο ἔταξας σεαυτόν, οὐδὲ τοῦτο ἐπηγγείλω· οὐδὲ γὰρ ἄρχων εἶ, οὐδὲ τῶν τὰ κοινὰ πρασσόντων. εἰ δέ τινες μὴ τούτων ὄντες εἰς αὐτὰ μᾶλλον ὠθοῦσιν ἑαυτούς, τί πρὸς σέ, τὸν ἀνακεῖσθαι θεῷ θέλοντα καὶ εἰς τοῦτο ὄντα; ἱκανὸν γὰρ ἑκάστῳ, εἰ τῆς ἑαυτοῦ τάξεως ἄξιος φανείη. εἰ γὰρ τὴν ἐνάρετον πολιτείαν μεταδιώκεις, τούτων οὐδέν σοι προσήκει ἐπιζητεῖν, ἀλλὰ μα̈λλον δι' ὧν ὃ ἐπηγγείλω πληρώσεις. "ἀλλ' οὐκ ἔχει ἡ πατρίς" φησίν "ἄνδρα ὅστις μετὰ φρονήσεως αὐτῆς ἡγούμενος λαμπροτέραν ἀποφηνῃ." τέως μὲν οὖν οὗτος ὁ λογισμὸς δείκνυσιν ὡς εἰς ὃ ἐπηγγείλω ἀνάρμοστος εἶ· εἰ γὰρ εἰς ἄλλο εἶ χρήσιμος, εἰς τὸ παρὸν οὐ χρήσιμος. εἰ δὲ ὅτι οὐκ ἔχει ἡγούμενον φρόνιμον, χρὴ σὲ ἀνάγκῃ πληρῶσαι τὴν χρείαν, λείψει αὐτῇ καὶ χαλκεὺς καὶ τέκτων καὶ γραμματεύς. εἰ δὲ ὁτιοῦν δύνασαι ποιῆσαι, πῶς οὐ σκοπεῖς ὅτι καὶ θυρωρὸς δύνασαι εἶναι καὶ σαρώτης; ἀλλὰ ταῦτα μὲν ουχ ὑποβάλλουσί σοι οἱ λογισμοί· τὸ δὲ τοῦ ἡγουμένου καὶ προὔχοντος πρόσωπον μόνον ἁρμόττειν σοι λέγοντες οὐκ ἐῶσιν ἕπεσθαι θεῷ καὶ εἴκειν εὐχαριστοῦντα εν τῇ τάξει εἰς ἣν κληθῆναι ἠξιώθημεν. "τίνα οὖν" φασίν "χώραν ἔχεις ἐν τῇ πόλει;" ἣν ἔχειν δυνῇ φυλάττων τὸ ἀνακεῖσθαι θεῷ. εἰ δὲ ἐν τῇ πόλει τιμᾶσθαι θέλων τῶν ουρανίων ἐκπέσεις, τί ὄφελος; οὕτω γὰρ καὶ τῇ πόλει κακὸς πολίτης καὶ τοῖς ἀδελφοῖς ἐπαχθὴς ἔσῃ.

The Scholia from Chapter 25 comes from Heyne's Enchiridion, 1756. The work can be found on GoogleBooks. This work contains the Greek scholia (The only place I've found the scholia). The scholia is available as a separate download on the LetsReadGreek site. Scholia (1 meg) The Scholia often can be found to contain definitions of terms.

Collected Notes on the text.

The order of the notes may be out of order in relation to the text.

Sentences numbered for sending in the translations

Reading 11: Chapters 24.5-25.3
Optional Reading
[2405a] εἰ δὲ ἐκείνην ὠφελεῖν βουλόμενος ἀποβαλεῖς ταῦτα, τί ὄφελος ἂν αὐτῇ γένοιο ἀναιδὴς καὶ ἄπιστος ἀποτελεσθείς;
[2501a] Προετιμήθη σού τις ἐν ἑστιάσει ἢ ἐν προσαγορεύσει ἢ ἐν τῷ παραληφθῆναι εἰς συμβουλίαν;
[2501b] εἰ μὲν ἀγαθὰ ταῦτά ἐστι, χαίρειν σε δεῖ, ὅτι ἔτυχεν αὐτῶν ἐκεῖνος·
[2501c] εἰ δὲ κακά, μὴ ἄχθου, ὅτι σὺ αὐτῶν οὐκ ἔτυχες·
[2501d] μέμνησο δέ, ὅτι οὐ δύνασαι μὴ ταὐτὰ ποιῶν πρὸς τὸ τυγχάνειν τῶν οὐκ ἐφ᾽ ἡμῖν τῶν ἴσων ἀξιοῦσθαι.

Basic Reading
[2502a] πῶς γὰρ ἴσον ἔχειν δύναται ὁ μὴ φοιτῶν ἐπὶ θύρας τινὸς τῷ φοιτῶντι;
[2502b] ὁ μὴ παραπέμπων τῷ παραπέμποντι;
[2502c] ὁ μὴ ἐπαινῶν τῷ ἐπαινοῦντι, ἄδικος οὖν ἔσῃ καὶ ἄπληστος,
[2502d] εἰ μὴ προϊέμενος ταῦτα, ἀνθ᾽ ὧν ἐκεῖνα πιπράσκεται, προῖκα αὐτὰ βουλήσῃ λαμβάνειν.
[2503a] ἀλλὰ πόσου πιπράσκονται θρίδακες; ὀβολοῦ, ἂν οὕτω τύχῃ.
[2503b] ἂν οὖν τις προέμενος τὸν ὀβολὸν λάβῃ θρίδακας, σὺ δὲ μὴ προέμενος μὴ λάβῃς, μὴ οἴου ἔλαττον ἔχειν τοῦ λαβόντος.
[2503c] ὡς γὰρ ἐκεῖνος ἔχει θρίδακας, οὕτω σὺ τὸν ὀβολόν, ὃν οὐκ ἔδωκας.

Table of Words

The local gloss is context-specific. The word-link and lemma-link are linked to the Perseus Hopper vocabulary tool. I have gone through the Greek lemma and verified them for accuracy - but there may still be some errors. Many of the definitions have been taken from the following translations: Mattheson, Boter, White, Oldfather and Long. If you have a better suggestion for a word, send in the word number, Greek word and suggested gloss, and I will add it into the vocabulary list.

A note of caution: Perseus does not always work as expected. The links are betacode which works better than sending in Greek Unicode lookups. But sometimes it still will not work. In addition, Perseus is often slow - if you see it cranking and cranking, try later, the server is too busy. An example of unexpected results is as follows: the neuter plural form ἀπαραπόδιστα returns 'not found'; the root lemma ἀπαραπόδιστος brings up its own correct entry. Some words are only listed in the Middle LSJ, not the main LSJ (e.g. οὐδέπω). So if you look up οὐδέπω in the Archimedes Harvard LSJ or your own personal copy, you won't find it.

The columns for vocabulary frequency are compiled from Perseus' Max frequency for the Enchiridion (EnchX) and all of Epictetus' works (EpicX including the Enchiridion). The New Testament frequencies are from Tischendorf's NT as provided by MorphGnt.org. Words are linked on betacode, but some lemmas do not link correctly (a problem that will be fixed over time), thus there are occasionally NTX freqencies that are missing or partial. When comparing the frequency of the various works, you should remember the Enchiridion (4983 words) is about the same length as the book of Hebrews (4953 words) and all Epictetus' writings (The Discourses - 75,177 words, Fragments - 4023 words,and Enchiridion - 4983 words; grand total - 84183) are 60% of the length of the New Testament (138,019 words). Although both the Epictus' works and the New Testament books are different in content and author, if you multiply the Epictetus frequency by 1.6 (EpicX x 1.6) you can come up with a comparable usage between the two works.